This is Beyond Accurate ("Cheap" Luxury Car Discussion Content)

"LeadfootYT" (leadfootyt) 02/04/2015 at 13:45 • Filed to: None

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Here, in concise, articulate language, is everything that I've been trying to voice about the "190k E60 M5 for the price of a Honda Civic" articles that Tavarish has been posting for the last few months. Definitely worth a read.

Yes, these cars are excellent opportunities if you are mechanically inclined and have multiple cars. But it again separates the "flip cars" from the actual, functioning "real car" and "weekend car" roles.

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For Sweden > LeadfootYT 02/04/2015 at 13:55

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Jack is not a fan of hobbies.

davedave1111 > LeadfootYT 02/04/2015 at 13:58

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I don't know, do you people all live in places that don't have Uber, cabs, and rental cars? If your car breaks down once or twice a year and you have to call a cab or take a rental for a few days, that's a lot cheaper than paying for the depreciation on a new car. Oh, and here you can get breakdown cover including a courtesy car for 3 days if necessary, and that's maybe $200ish a year.

Obviously you can buy a heap of junk for a couple of thousand dollars, but you can also find basic cars which function perfectly well. Double that, and you can get some quite nice cars that run just fine, like the Lexus. Put aside a bit of emergency cash from that car payment you're not making, and you should save a fortune over an expensive loan on a nearly new car.

BigBlock440 > LeadfootYT 02/04/2015 at 14:02

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I was able to put two hundred bucks on a credit card without planning in any way for this eventuality or taking the money out of my food budget. Had it been two thousand, I'd have been fine. Had it been twenty thousand… well, I'd have lit a match and burned Matt's Lexus to the ground. But the important point was that I was financially capable of getting whatever parts the car needed. In the America of 2015, very few families can say the same. Privilege!

Tavarish and his friend are both skilled mechanics. They have an understanding of auto repair that cost them money and time and effort to acquire. Al, in fact, was a former Lamborghini tech. What's that training worth? Do most poor people have it? Of course not, so they'd have had to pay to have the car towed ($100 at least) to a mechanic and have two billable hours put in (~$170 in Ohio, more elsewhere), raising the price of the repair to nearly five hundred bucks. Not us! We just fixed it, because we knew how. Also, I had a $400 toolbox available. Privilege!

So...it's privilege to have $200 to spend on parts, but having $270 to get it towed and fixed is not?

Party-vi > LeadfootYT 02/04/2015 at 14:05

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"the notoriously stupid Jalopnik commentariat."

Stay classy, TTAC.

For Sweden > Party-vi 02/04/2015 at 14:06

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I think he means me.

Steve Zissou > BigBlock440 02/04/2015 at 14:06

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Both of those bullet points end with the word "Privilege!" I am confused by your question.

Funktheduck > Party-vi 02/04/2015 at 14:07

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I'm not the smartest man in the world but I run into some real dumb people on the FP.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > davedave1111 02/04/2015 at 14:09

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Virtually everyone in the US can get a rental. Jack's also mixed up on the difference between cheap expensive cars and cheap cheap cars. The latter having depreciated less, will be clapped out less, and will cost less to fix - as much as Tavarish and others have made a big thing of "nice" cars being affordable when old, there are different sorts. A nice car that is nice through accessories and performance kit is a wholly separate thing from a plain jane in her best dress and makeup (virtually any Lexus, Ford Panther cars, etc.).

Funktheduck > davedave1111 02/04/2015 at 14:11

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I drive my car a lot for my business. There is no option for a cab or über for me. I couldn't afford the maintenance on a luxury car or the fuel. Not everyone has a 9-5 job where they can catch a ride to work.

Party-vi > Funktheduck 02/04/2015 at 14:12

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Everyone in Oppo is part of the commentariat.

BigBlock440 > Steve Zissou 02/04/2015 at 14:15

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He's saying if they didn't fix it, they'd have to pay $270. Being able to avoid the $270 is privilege! and if they didn't have privilege! they would have been shelling out $270 to get it fixed. But the first bullet point says it's privilege! to have $200 to spend on parts.

I'm confused how it's privilege! to have $200 to fix your car, but it's not privilege! to have $270 to fix your car.

davedave1111 > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 02/04/2015 at 14:16

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"Jack's also mixed up on the difference between cheap expensive cars and cheap cheap cars."

Yeah, I was trying to say that. A couple of weeks ago I bought a 1989 Camry with 60k miles on the clock and FSH. Admittedly it was a complete bargain at £500, but even at treble the price it would be a great, reliable, economical, cheap means of transport. It's a 25 year old 3 year old car, essentially.

davedave1111 > Funktheduck 02/04/2015 at 14:20

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There are exceptions, but if you're driving for business that makes a car partly a tool of your trade, so your car budget will include a chunk for that over and above the basic minimum cost of simply having some kind of transportation.

I'm not sure I understood your no-cabs point. And I don't really see how working hours make any difference to anything.

Funktheduck > BigBlock440 02/04/2015 at 14:20

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You apparently have never been poor or had to live check to check.

Steve Zissou > BigBlock440 02/04/2015 at 14:27

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1.) "We had the luxury of spending $200 on parts without a second thought or dramatic impact on our monthly budgeting. We sure are fortunate to be in that position financially."

2.) "We had the luxury of having two highly skilled/experienced mechanics and $400 worth of tools that we could use for free. We sure are fortunate to have those at our disposal, because that $200 we spent on repairs could have easily been $500, which would have been an even bigger burden for someone less fortunate than us."

BigBlock440 > Funktheduck 02/04/2015 at 14:30

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Because spending $270 is better than spending $200 when you're poor?

Funktheduck > davedave1111 02/04/2015 at 14:49

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I meant for me no cabs or uber as an option. They're too expensive and I'm not sure if uber is around here. I think it is. The cabs here have defeated every bill proposed to install meters. They usually charge by the person anywhere between $10-20 for a few miles.

Working hours can make a huge difference. If you work a normal 8 hour job, say 9-5, it's much easier to coordinate getting a ride from a friend, coworker, neighbor, etc. or public transit. Some bus schedules here run every 15 minutes during the day but either stop running routes or come every hour or more.

One example: I have a friend who works at a retail store. His truck broke down. For a week he had to ride the bus to work. Since he couldn't be late he had to show up to work almost an hour early everyday because of the bus route timing. Because the route only runs one way (giant circle around town) he had a short ride in but almost an hour ride home. Long story short 3 hours of his day were gone because of the bus schedule. He was fortunate to have the bus but because of his weird hours he couldn't catch rides with other people except once.

Funktheduck > BigBlock440 02/04/2015 at 14:53

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If I'm not mistaken the article stated they were able to spend $200 on the parts and fixed it themselves. The $270 was for towing and labor and not parts.

Or maybe I misunderstood you. When I was in college $70 was a lot of money. I lived check to check until I lucked into a better paying job.

BigBlock440 > Funktheduck 02/04/2015 at 15:00

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Yes, $70 was, that's why I fix shit myself. I just felt the second statement contradicted the one right before it. If you don't have the privilege! of spending $200 on parts, you also wouldn't have the privilege! of spending money on a tow or to pay someone to fix it

Funktheduck > BigBlock440 02/04/2015 at 15:25

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Probably true but not everyone has the skills/access to tools. I generally do.

I know far too many people who can't change a tire or their oil. Heck, some people are confused by changing bulbs. Others are just scared of screwing something up.

davedave1111 > Funktheduck 02/04/2015 at 18:40

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I think you kind of missed my point, because of course cabs and rental cars are expensive, but they're much cheaper than paying interest and depreciation on a new car.

LeadfootYT > davedave1111 02/05/2015 at 11:50

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Yes? Vermont doesn't have Uber unless you're in Burlington, and while I'm in South Carolina temporarily, I certainly wouldn't want to live in any kind of suburban place for more than a few months, so yes, I also plan to return to regions that do not have an industry of men and women wandering the streets looking for people to drive around.

But moreover, that article is pretty obviously not aimed at people who have an "emergency cash" fund—it's aimed at preventing people who like shiny things from taking Tavarish's ridiculous advice and taking a loan out on a $13k high-mile M5 that they can't afford in the first place and then expecting to be able to drive it to their low-paying job that they will be fired from if they arrive ten minutes late. These people SHOULD get cheap cars, but they should be getting cars that they can afford, and cars that are simple to repair—Honda Civics, Toyota Corollas, etc. They should not stretch their budget for the entry price of a once-expensive Mercedes or BMW and then go bankrupt because the maintenance on it costs as much as the annual entry fee that they already took a loan out to pay for.

LeadfootYT > davedave1111 02/05/2015 at 11:52

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Exactly. But Tavarish doesn't recommend $500 Hondas. He recommends cars that cost close to the amount of a decent used Civic—cars in the $15-20k range, that lower-income people would need to take loans out to afford. And if you're a person who likes shiny things and is looking at a 2004 Mercedes CL with 140k and a 2010 Honda with 40k, each for $14,000, and some guy on the Internet told you his Mercedes S-Class was "reliable", then you're going to be in for a world of pain.

davedave1111 > LeadfootYT 02/05/2015 at 12:30

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"Vermont doesn't have Uber"

You did notice that was an 'or', right? Is there seriously much of the US which doesn't have cabs and rental cars?

"it's aimed at preventing people who like shiny things from taking Tavarish's ridiculous advice"

You think Tavarish is giving advice? Well there's your problem :)

davedave1111 > LeadfootYT 02/05/2015 at 12:31

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"He recommends cars that cost close to the amount of a decent used Civic—cars in the $15-20k range, that lower-income people would need to take loans out to afford."

Yes, so his 'recommendations' clearly don't apply to those groups. But then nor does a recommendation for a $15k Civic, because that's also clearly a ridiculous expenditure in that position.

LeadfootYT > davedave1111 02/05/2015 at 16:44

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There are many people in the world who cannot afford their bills, yet believe that they must , whether because of the insistence of television commercials, society, or any other influence, spend upwards of $15k or even $20k on a vehicle. These are not people who make wise financial decisions, but they are people who are comforted by a "reasonable" voice on a reputable automotive website informing them that they could have leather, navigation, and a 420-horsepower supercharged British V8 for the same price as the car they were prepared to bargain their entire lives for. Is it logical? No. Does it happen? Often.

LeadfootYT > davedave1111 02/05/2015 at 16:47

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Vermont, with the exception of Burlington, does not have cabs. Many states in New England, once you exclude their largest cities, are the same way. There's one guy who runs an "airport shuttle service" that I know, and he'll show up sometimes and charge customers about $150 for a one way ride to the nearest International Airport in New York state, but other than that, no cabs, no public transport (unless you want to go between the center of two towns about 40 minutes apart, in which case there used to be a bus, but isn't any more). Uber was the best shot, but there's no customer base for that, either. And the nearest rental agency is probably at the airport an hour and a half away in New York state (or three hours away in Burlington). You can rent cars from the dealer, but that's still a massive expense, and you still need to ask someone to drive you twenty minutes to the nearest new car dealer, who'll probably just be confused.

davedave1111 > LeadfootYT 02/05/2015 at 16:56

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You appear to have an entirely too optimistic idea about the reach of a Tavarish article, I'm afraid. A bit like a baby which manages to grab the bars of its own cot, and tries to pull the sun out of the sky next.

davedave1111 > LeadfootYT 02/05/2015 at 16:58

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So what you're saying is that for a couple of hundred bucks or so, you can get a ride to the nearest rental car place and rent a car? Great.

I'm surprised to hear that there are large areas of the US without cabs, though. It does seem like Uber would be a great idea round there.